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首页 > ADS > ADS FAQ > ADS Momentum stacking multi layer and single-layer component simulations

ADS Momentum stacking multi layer and single-layer component simulations

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I'm simulating a 3-layer board (energy is coupled by a 'waveguide' from layer 1 to 3) followed by a coupled line bandpass filter.
I've simulated coupler and am satisfied with the results. I've also simulated a bandpass filter (albeit, on a single-layer board) and am satisfied with it. I stack them in ADS schematic (coupler and bandpass filter share a ground) and S-parameters add linearly. Next, when I copy and paste those two structures together, I get distorted signal, even though input and output impedances and matched to 50Ω relatively well.

闂傚倸鍊搁崐鎼佸磹閹间礁纾归柟闂寸绾惧綊鏌熼梻瀵割槮缁惧墽鎳撻—鍐偓锝庝簼閹癸綁鏌i鐐搭棞闁靛棙甯掗~婵嬫晲閸涱剙顥氬┑掳鍊楁慨鐑藉磻濞戔懞鍥偨缁嬪灝鐎俊銈忕到閸燁偆绮诲☉妯忓綊鏁愰崨顔跨缂備礁顑勯懗鍓佹閹捐纾兼慨姗嗗厴閸嬫捇鎮滈懞銉モ偓鍧楁煥閺囨氨鍔嶉柟鍐茬焸濮婄粯鎷呴崨濠傛殘闂佽崵鍠嗛崕鎶藉箲閵忕媭娼ㄩ柍褜鍓欓锝嗙節濮橆厼浜滅紒鐐妞存悂寮查鍕拺闁圭ǹ娴风粻鎾寸箾鐠囇呭埌閺佸牊淇婇妶鍛櫤闁稿鍓濈换婵囩節閸屾稑娅e銈忕到閵堟悂骞冩禒瀣垫晬婵炴垶蓱鐠囩偤姊虹拠鈥虫灍闁荤噦濡囬幑銏犫攽鐎n亞鍊為梺闈浤涢崘銊ヮ洭濠电姷鏁告慨鐑藉极閹间礁纾规い鏍仜閻掑灚銇勯幒鎴濐仼缁炬儳顭烽弻鐔煎礈瑜忕敮娑㈡煟閹惧娲撮柟顔筋殜閺佹劖鎯旈垾鑼晼濠电姭鎷冮崘顏冪驳闂侀€涚┒閸斿秶鎹㈠┑瀣窛妞ゆ洖鎳嶉崫妤呮⒒娴e憡璐¢柟铏尵閳ь剚姘ㄦ晶妤佺┍婵犲洤绠瑰ù锝堝€介妸鈺傜叆闁哄啠鍋撻柛搴$-缁辩偤骞掑Δ浣叉嫽闂佺ǹ鏈悷銊╁礂瀹€鍕厵闁惧浚鍋呭畷宀€鈧娲滈弫璇差嚕娴犲鏁囬柣鎰問閸炵敻姊绘担鑺ョ《闁革綇绠撻獮蹇涙晸閿燂拷...



I expected above two circuits give me identical response but it wasn't the case. I don't expect there to be crosstalk between the layers as they are well isolated, so who wouldn't response be identical? Does it have anything to do with how ports are set up in Momentum?

闂傚倸鍊搁崐鎼佸磹閹间礁纾归柟闂寸绾惧綊鏌熼梻瀵割槮缁惧墽鎳撻—鍐偓锝庝簼閹癸綁鏌i鐐搭棞闁靛棙甯掗~婵嬫晲閸涱剙顥氬┑掳鍊楁慨鐑藉磻濞戔懞鍥偨缁嬪灝鐎俊銈忕到閸燁偆绮诲☉妯忓綊鏁愰崨顔跨缂備礁顑勯懗鍓佹閹捐纾兼慨姗嗗厴閸嬫捇鎮滈懞銉モ偓鍧楁煥閺囨氨鍔嶉柟鍐茬焸濮婄粯鎷呴崨濠傛殘闂佽崵鍠嗛崕鎶藉箲閵忕媭娼ㄩ柍褜鍓欓锝嗙節濮橆厼浜滅紒鐐妞存悂寮查鍕拺闁圭ǹ娴风粻鎾寸箾鐠囇呭埌閺佸牊淇婇妶鍛櫤闁稿鍓濈换婵囩節閸屾稑娅e銈忕到閵堟悂骞冩禒瀣垫晬婵炴垶蓱鐠囩偤姊虹拠鈥虫灍闁荤噦濡囬幑銏犫攽鐎n亞鍊為梺闈浤涢崘銊ヮ洭濠电姷鏁告慨鐑藉极閹间礁纾规い鏍仜閻掑灚銇勯幒鎴濐仼缁炬儳顭烽弻鐔煎礈瑜忕敮娑㈡煟閹惧娲撮柟顔筋殜閺佹劖鎯旈垾鑼晼濠电姭鎷冮崘顏冪驳闂侀€涚┒閸斿秶鎹㈠┑瀣窛妞ゆ洖鎳嶉崫妤呮⒒娴e憡璐¢柟铏尵閳ь剚姘ㄦ晶妤佺┍婵犲洤绠瑰ù锝堝€介妸鈺傜叆闁哄啠鍋撻柛搴$-缁辩偤骞掑Δ浣叉嫽闂佺ǹ鏈悷銊╁礂瀹€鍕厵闁惧浚鍋呭畷宀€鈧娲滈弫璇差嚕娴犲鏁囬柣鎰問閸炵敻姊绘担鑺ョ《闁革綇绠撻獮蹇涙晸閿燂拷...

Hi,
Show the substrate definition for your single-layer and multi-layer boards.
One possibility is that since the surrounding environment of circuits is changed effective dielectric constant is also have been changed.

That's what I'm thinking, too. I used the same substrate definition for all structures.

闂傚倸鍊搁崐鎼佸磹閹间礁纾归柟闂寸绾惧綊鏌熼梻瀵割槮缁惧墽鎳撻—鍐偓锝庝簼閹癸綁鏌i鐐搭棞闁靛棙甯掗~婵嬫晲閸涱剙顥氬┑掳鍊楁慨鐑藉磻濞戔懞鍥偨缁嬪灝鐎俊銈忕到閸燁偆绮诲☉妯忓綊鏁愰崨顔跨缂備礁顑勯懗鍓佹閹捐纾兼慨姗嗗厴閸嬫捇鎮滈懞銉モ偓鍧楁煥閺囨氨鍔嶉柟鍐茬焸濮婄粯鎷呴崨濠傛殘闂佽崵鍠嗛崕鎶藉箲閵忕媭娼ㄩ柍褜鍓欓锝嗙節濮橆厼浜滅紒鐐妞存悂寮查鍕拺闁圭ǹ娴风粻鎾寸箾鐠囇呭埌閺佸牊淇婇妶鍛櫤闁稿鍓濈换婵囩節閸屾稑娅e銈忕到閵堟悂骞冩禒瀣垫晬婵炴垶蓱鐠囩偤姊虹拠鈥虫灍闁荤噦濡囬幑銏犫攽鐎n亞鍊為梺闈浤涢崘銊ヮ洭濠电姷鏁告慨鐑藉极閹间礁纾规い鏍仜閻掑灚銇勯幒鎴濐仼缁炬儳顭烽弻鐔煎礈瑜忕敮娑㈡煟閹惧娲撮柟顔筋殜閺佹劖鎯旈垾鑼晼濠电姭鎷冮崘顏冪驳闂侀€涚┒閸斿秶鎹㈠┑瀣窛妞ゆ洖鎳嶉崫妤呮⒒娴e憡璐¢柟铏尵閳ь剚姘ㄦ晶妤佺┍婵犲洤绠瑰ù锝堝€介妸鈺傜叆闁哄啠鍋撻柛搴$-缁辩偤骞掑Δ浣叉嫽闂佺ǹ鏈悷銊╁礂瀹€鍕厵闁惧浚鍋呭畷宀€鈧娲滈弫璇差嚕娴犲鏁囬柣鎰問閸炵敻姊绘担鑺ョ《闁革綇绠撻獮蹇涙晸閿燂拷...

If you have used the same substrate definition for all of your circuits, there shouldn't be the problem that I mentioned.

闂傚倸鍊搁崐鎼佸磹閹间礁纾归柟闂寸绾惧綊鏌熼梻瀵割槮缁惧墽鎳撻—鍐偓锝庝簼閹癸綁鏌i鐐搭棞闁靛棙甯掗~婵嬫晲閸涱剙顥氬┑掳鍊楁慨鐑藉磻濞戔懞鍥偨缁嬪灝鐎俊銈忕到閸燁偆绮诲☉妯忓綊鏁愰崨顔跨缂備礁顑勯懗鍓佹閹捐纾兼慨姗嗗厴閸嬫捇鎮滈懞銉モ偓鍧楁煥閺囨氨鍔嶉柟鍐茬焸濮婄粯鎷呴崨濠傛殘闂佽崵鍠嗛崕鎶藉箲閵忕媭娼ㄩ柍褜鍓欓锝嗙節濮橆厼浜滅紒鐐妞存悂寮查鍕拺闁圭ǹ娴风粻鎾寸箾鐠囇呭埌閺佸牊淇婇妶鍛櫤闁稿鍓濈换婵囩節閸屾稑娅e銈忕到閵堟悂骞冩禒瀣垫晬婵炴垶蓱鐠囩偤姊虹拠鈥虫灍闁荤噦濡囬幑銏犫攽鐎n亞鍊為梺闈浤涢崘銊ヮ洭濠电姷鏁告慨鐑藉极閹间礁纾规い鏍仜閻掑灚銇勯幒鎴濐仼缁炬儳顭烽弻鐔煎礈瑜忕敮娑㈡煟閹惧娲撮柟顔筋殜閺佹劖鎯旈垾鑼晼濠电姭鎷冮崘顏冪驳闂侀€涚┒閸斿秶鎹㈠┑瀣窛妞ゆ洖鎳嶉崫妤呮⒒娴e憡璐¢柟铏尵閳ь剚姘ㄦ晶妤佺┍婵犲洤绠瑰ù锝堝€介妸鈺傜叆闁哄啠鍋撻柛搴$-缁辩偤骞掑Δ浣叉嫽闂佺ǹ鏈悷銊╁礂瀹€鍕厵闁惧浚鍋呭畷宀€鈧娲滈弫璇差嚕娴犲鏁囬柣鎰問閸炵敻姊绘担鑺ョ《闁革綇绠撻獮蹇涙晸閿燂拷...



I have't considered checking it but but now that I have, turns out frequency response of my circuit is depended on substrate length and width.

I attached the a picture showing what happens when I only changed substrate dimensions.
What are the recommended dimensions of a substrate for EM simulation?

A little clarification on my post. What I meant by "substrate layer" was the ground plane layer. I do believe simulations are bounded by it as dielectric layers labeled with "infinite width" according to stackup definition.

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